Irenius: Mary so ther have bin divers good plotts devised and wise counsells cast alredy about reformation of that realme but they say it is the fatall destiny of that land that no purposes whatsoever are meant for her good wil prosper and take good effect: which whether it proceede from the very genius of the soyle or influence of the starrs or that Almighty god hath not yet appoynted the time of her reformacion or that he reserveth her in this unquiet state still for some secret scourge which shall by her come unto England it is hard to be knowne but yet much to be feared.
Eudox: Surely I suppose this but a vaine conceipt of simple men which judge things by ther effects and not by ther causes; for I would rather thinck the cause of this evel which hangeth upon that country to proceede rather upon the unsoundnesse of the counsell and plotts which you say have bin oftentimes layd for her reformacon or of fayntnesse in following and effecting the same then of any such fatall course or appoyntment of god as you misdeme; but it is the manner of men that when they are fallen into any absurdity or theyre actions succeede not as they would they are ready alwayes to impute the blame therof unto the heavens so to excuse ther own folly and imperfections: so have I also heard it often wished (even of some whos great wisedome in [my] opinion should seme to judg more soundly of so weighty a consideracon) that all that land weare a sea-poole; which kind of speach is the manner rather of desperate men far driven to wish the utter ruine of that which they cannot redresse then of grave counsellors which ought to thinck nothing so hard but that through wisdome it may be maistered and subdued; since the poet sayth that the wiseman shall rule even over the starrs much more over the earth: for were it not the part of a desperate physition to wish his diseased patient dead rather then to imploy the best indevours of his skill for his recovery: but since we are so far entred let us I pray you devise of those evills by which that country is held in this wretched case that it cannot as you say be recured. And if it be not painfull to you to tell us what things during your late continuance ther you observed to be most offensive and impeachfull unto the good rule and government therof.
Iren: Surely Eudox. the evills which you desire to be recounted are very many and almost countable with those which were hidden in the basket of Pandora: but since you so please I will out of that infinit number reckone but some that are most capitall and commonly occurrent both in the life and condicions of private men and also in the manage of publique affaires and pollicie. The which you shall understand to be of divers natures as I observed them: for some of them are of very great antiquity and long continuance; others more late and of lesse endurance; others dayly growing and increasing continually as the evill occasions are every day offred.
Eudox: Tell them I pray you in the same order that you have now rehearsed them; for ther can be no better methode then this which the very matter itself offreth. And when you have reckoned all the evills let us heare your opinion for redressing of them. After which ther will perhaps of it self appere some reasonable way to settle a sound and perfect rule of government by shunning the former evills and following the offred good. The which methode we may learne of the wise Physitions which first require that the malady be knowne throughly and discovered: afterwards do teach how to cure and redresse it: and lastly do prescribe a diet with streight rules and orders to be dayly observed for fear of relaps into the former disease or falling into some other more dangerous then it.
Iren: I will then according to your advisement begin to declare the evills which seme to be most hurtfull to the comon-weale of that land: and first those which I sayd were most ancient and long growne: and they are also of 3 kinds; the first in the lawes the second in customes the last in religion.
Eudox: Why Irenius can there be anie evill in the lawes? can things which are ordayned for the safetie and good of all turne to the evill and hurt of them? This well I wote both in that state and in all other that were they not contayned in doutie with feare of lawe which restrayneth offences and inflicteth sharpe punishment to misdoers no man should enjoy anie thing everie mans hand would be against another. Therfore in finding fault with the lawes I doubt me you shall muche over-shote your selfe and make me the more dislike your other dislikes of that government.
Iren: The lawes Eudoxus I doe not blame for them selves knowing that all lawes are ordayned for the good of the common weal and for repressing of licensiousnesse and vice: but it falleth out in lawes no otherwise then it doth in Phisick which was at first devized and is yet dayly ment and ministred for the health of the patient: but neverthelesse we often se that either through ignorance of the disease or unseasonablenesse of the time or other accidents comming betwene in stead of good it worketh hurt and out of one evill throweth the patient into many miseries: so the lawes were at first intended for the reformacon of abuses and peaceable continuance of the subjects: but are since either disannulled or quite prevaricated through chang and alteration of times yet are they still good in them selves: but to that common wealth which is ruled by them they worke not that good which they should and sometimes also perhaps that evil which they would not.
Eudox: Whether do you meane this by the common lawes of the realme or by the statute lawes and acts of parliament?
Iren: Surely by them both: for even the common lawes being that which William of Normandy brought in with his conquest and layd upon the neck of England though it perhaps fitted well with the state of England then being and was readily obeyed through the power of the commander which had before subdued the poeple to him and made easy way to the setting of his will; yet with the state of Ireland peradventure it doth not so well agre being a poeple altogether stubborn and vntamed and if it were once tamed yet now lately having quite shaken of ther yoke and broken the bands of ther obedience. For England before the entrance of the Conqueror was an unpeaceable kingdome and but lately entred to the mild and godly goverment of King Edward surnamed the confessor; besides now lately growne unto a lothing and detestation of the unjust and tirannous rule of Harold an usurper which made them the more willing to accept of any reasonable condicons and order of the new Victor thincking surely it could be no worse than the latter and hoping well it would be as good as the former: yet what the proofe of the first bringing in and establishing of the lawes was was to many full bitterly made knowne. But with Ireland it is far otherwise: for it is a nation ever acquainted with warrs though but amongest them selves and in ther owne kind of military disciplin trayned up from ther youths: which they have never yet bin tought to lay aside nor made to learne obedience unto the law scarsely to know the name of law but in stead therof have alwayes preserved and kept ther owne law which is the Brehon law.
Eudox: What is that which you call the Brehon law? it is a word unto us altogether unknowne.
Iren: It is a certaine rule of right unwritten but delivered by tradition from one to an other in which oftentimes there appereth great shew of equity in determining the right betwene part and party but in many things repugning quite from gods law and mans as for example in the case of murther. The Brehon that is ther judg will compound betwene the murtherer and the frends of the party murthered which prosecute the action that the malefactor shall give unto them or to the child or wife of him that is slaine a recompence which they call an Iriach; by which vile law of thers many murders are amongest them made up and smothered. And this judg being as he is called the Lords Brehon adjudgeth for the most part a better share unto his Lord that is the Lord of the soyle or the head of that septe and also unto him self for his judgment a greater portion than unto the plaintifes or parties grieved.
Eudox: This is a most wicked law indede: but I trust it is not now used in Ireland since the kings of England have had the absolute dominion therof and established ther owne lawes there.
Iren: Yes truly for ther are many wide countries in Ireland in which the lawes of England were never established nor any acknowledgement of subjection made: and also even in those which are subdued and seme to acknowledg subjection yet the same Brehon law is privily practised amongest them selves by reason that dwelling as they do whole nations and septs of the Irish together without any Englishman amongest them they may do what they list and compound or altogether conceale amongest them selves ther owne crimes of which no notice can be had by them which would and might amend the same by the rule of the lawes of England.
Eudox: What is this which you say? and is ther any part of that realme or any nacon therin which have not yet been subdued to the crowne of England? Did not the whole realme universally accept and acknowledg our late Prince of famous memory Henry the eight ther ownely King and liege Lord?
Iren: Yes verily: in a parliament held in the time of Sir Anthony Saint-Leger then Lord Deputy all the Irish Lords and principall men came in and being by faire means wrought thereunto acknowledged King Henry for their Soveraigne Lord reserving yet as some say unto them selves all ther owne former privileges and signories inviolate.
Eudox: Then by that acceptance of his soveraignety they also accepted of his lawes: why then should any other laws be now used amongest them?
Iren: Trew it is that therby they bound them selves to his lawes and obedience and in case it had been followed against them as it should have bin and a goverment therupon presently settled amongest them agreeable therunto they should have bin reduced to perpetuall civillity and contayned in continuall duty: but what boots it to breake a colt and to let him streight run lose at randome? so were this people at first well handled and wisely brought to acknowledg allegiance to the King of England: but being straight left unto them selves and ther owne inordinate life and manners they eftsones forgot what before they were taught and so sone as they were out of sight by them selves shooke of their bridles and began to colt anew more licensiously than before.
Eudox: It is great pitty that so good an opportunity was omitted and so happy an occasion foreslacked that might have bred the eternall good of that land: but do they not still acknowledg that submission?
Iren: No they do not; for now the heirs and posterity of them which yeilded the same are as they say either ignorant therof or do willingly deny or steadfastly disavow it.
Eudox: How can they so do justly? doth not the act of the parent in any lawfull grant or conveyance bind his heires forever therunto? Sith then the ancestors of thes that now live yeilded them selves their subjects and liege men shall it not ty ther children to the same subjection?
Iren: They say no: for ther ancestours had had no estate in any ther lands Seigniories or hereditaments longer than during ther owne lives as they allege: for all the Irish do hould ther lands by Tanistrie which is to say no more but a personall estate for his lifetime that is Tanist. By reason that he is admitted therunto by election of the country.
Eudox: What is this you call Tanist and Tanistrie? they be names and tearmes never heard of or knowne to us.
Iren: It is a custome amongest all the Irish that presently after the death of any their chiefe Lords or Captaines they do presently assemble them selves to a place generally appoynted and knowne unto them to chose an other in his stead: where they do nominate and elect for the most part not the eldest sonne nor any of the children of ther Lord deceased but the next to him of blood that is the eldest and worthiest as commonly the next brother unto him if he have any or the next couzine germane or so forth as any is elder in that kindred or sept: and then next to him do those chose the next of the blood to be Tanist who shall next succeede him in the said Captenry if he live therunto.
Eudox: Do they use any ceremony in this election? for all barberous nacons are commonly great observers of cerimonies and superstitious rights.
Iren: They use to place him that shall be their Captaine upon a stone alwayes reserved for that purpose and placed commonly upon a hill: in many of the which I have seen the fote of a man formed and graven which they say was the measure of ther first Captaines foot wheron he standing receiveth an oath to preserve all the former auncient customes of the country inviolable and to deliver up the succession peaceably to his Tanist and then has a wand delivered unto him by some whose proper office that is: after which discending from the stone he turns him selfe round thrice forwarde and thrice backward.
Eudox: But how is the Tanist chosen?
Iren: They say he setteth but one fote upon the stone and receiveth the like oath the Captaine did.
Eudox: Have you ever heard what was the occasion and first beginning of this custome? for it is good to know the same and may perhaps discover some secret meaning and intent therein very materiall to the state of that government.
Iren: I have heard that the beginning and cause of this ordinance amongest the Irish was specially for the defence and maintenance of ther land in ther posterity and for excluding all innovacon or alienation therof unto strangers and especially to the English: For when ther Captaine dieth if the Seigniory should discend unto his child and he perhaps an infant an other might perhaps step in betwene and thrust him out by strong hand being then vnable to defend his right or to withstand the force of a forayner: and therfore they do appoynt the eldest of the kin to have the seigniory for that he commonly is a man of stronger yeares and better experience to maintain the inheritance and to defend the country either against the next bordering Lords which use commonly to incroch one upon another as each one is stronger or against the English which they thinck ly still in wayte to wipe them out of ther lands and territories. And to this end the Tanist is always ready knowne if it should happen the Captaine suddenly to dy or be slayne in batayle or to be out of the country to defend and kepe it from all such doubts and dangers. [F]or which cause the Tanist hath also a share of the country allotted unto him and certaine cuttings and spendings upon all the inhabitants under the Lord.
Eudox: When I heare this word Tanist it bringeth to my remembrance what I have read of Tania that it should signify a province or Seignory [as] Aquitania Lusitania and Britania the which some do thinck to be derived of Dania that is from the Danes: but I thinck amisse for sure it semeth that it came anciently from those barberous nacons that overrane the world which possessed those dominions whereof they are now so called. And so it may well be that from thence the first originall of this word Tanist and Tanistry came and the custome therof has since as many others else bin continued: but to that generall subjection of the land wherof we formerly spake me semes that this custome or tenure can be no bar nor impeachment seing that in open parlyament by ther said acknowledgement they waived the benefit therof and submitted them selves to the ordinance of ther new soveraigne.
Iren: Yea but they say as I earst tould you that they reserved ther titles tenures and seigniories whole and sound to them selves and for proofe alleged that they have ever since remayned to them untouched so as now to alter them they say shoul'd be a great wrong.
Eudox: What remedy is ther then or means to avoyde this inconvenience for without first cutting out this dangerous custom it semeth hard to plant any sound ordinance or reduce them to a civill government since all ther evill customes are permitted unto them.
Iren: Surely nothing hard; for by this act of parlament wherof we speake nothing was given to King Henry which he had not before from his auncestors but onelie the bare name of a King: [f]or all other absolute power of principallity he had in him selfe before derived from many former Kings his famous progenitours and worthy conquerors of that land the which since they first conquered and by force subdued vnto them what neede he afterward to enter into any such idle tearmes with them to be called ther King when as it is in the power of the Conqueror to take upon him self what title he will over his dominions conquered: for all is the conqueror's as Tully to Brutus saith: and therfore me semes in stead of so great and meritorious a service as they boast they performed to the King in bringing all the Irish to acknowledge him for ther liege they did great hurt to his title and have left a perpetuall gall in the mind of that people who before being absolutely bound to his obedience are now tyed but with tearmes whereas both ther lives ther lands and their liberties were in his fre power to appoynt what tenures what lawes what condicions he would over them which were all his: against which ther could be no rightful [re]sistance or if there were he might when he would establish them with a stronger hand.
Eudox: Yea but perhaps it semed better vnto that noble King to bring them by ther owne accord to his obedience and to plant a peaceable goverment amongest them then by such violent means to pluck them under. Neither yet hath he therby lost any thing that he formerly had: for having al before absolutely in his owne power it remayneth so still he having neither forgiven nor foregon anything therby unto them but having received something from them that is a more voluntary and loyall subjection. So as her Majestie may yet when it shall please her alter any of thos former ordinances or appoynt other lawes that may be more both for her own behoofe and for the good of that poeple.
Iren: Not so for it is not so easy now that things are growne into an habit and have ther certaine course to change the channell and turn ther streames an other way; for they may have now a collourable pretence to withstand such innovasion having accepted of other lawes and rules alredy.
Eudox: But you say they do not accept of them but delight rather to leane to the ould customes and Brehon lawes though they be much more vnjust and also more inconvenient for the common poeple as by your late relacion of them I gathered. As for the lawes of England they are surely most just and most agreeable both with the goverment and with the nature of the poeple: how falls it out then that you seme to dislike of them as not so meete for that realm of Ireland and not onely the common law but also the statutes and acts of parlament which were specially provided and intended for the onely benefit therof?
Iren: I was about to have tould you my reason therin but that you your self drew me away with other questions for I was shewing you by what means and in what sort the positive lawes were first brought in and established by the Norman Conqueror: which were not by him devised nor applyed to the state of the realme then being nor as it might best be (as should by lawgivers be principally regarded) but were indede the very lawes of his owne country of Normandy: the condicon wherof how far it differeth from this of England is apparent to everie least judgment. But to transfer the same lawes for the governing of the realme of Ireland was much more inconvenient and unmete: for he found a better advantage of the time then was in the planting of them in Ireland and followed the execution of them with more severity and was also present in person to overloke the magistrates and to over awe the subjects with the terror of his sword and countenance of his Majestie. But not so in Ireland: for they were otherwise effected and yet not so remayned so as the same lawes me semes can ill fit with their disposicion or work that reformacon that is wished: for lawes ought to be fashioned unto the manners and condicons of the people to whom they are ment and not to be imposed upon them according to the simple rule of right: for then as I sayd in stead of good they may work ill and pervert justice to extreame injustice: [f]or he that would transfer the lawes of the Lacedemonians to the poeple of Athens should find a great absurdity and inconvenience: for those lawes of Lacedemon were devised by Licurgus as most proper and best agreeing with that people whom he knew to be inclined altogether to warrs and therfore wholy trayned them up even from ther cradles in armes and military exercises clean contrary to the institution of Solon who in his lawes to the Athenians labored by all means to temper ther warlike courages with swete delights of learning and sciences so that as much as the one excelled in arms the other exceded in knowledg: the like regard and moderation ought to be had in tempering and managing of this stubburn nation of the Irish to bring them from their delight of licensious barbarisme unto the love of goodnesse and civillity.
Eudox: I cannot se how that may better be then by the discipline of the lawes of England: for the English were at first as stout and war like a poeple as ever were the Irish and yet ye se are now brought to that civillity that no nacon in the world excelleth them in all godly conversacon and all the studies of knowledg and humanity.
Iren: What they now be both you and I se very well; but by how many thorny and hard wayes they are come therunto by how many civill broyls by how many tumultuous rebellions that even hazard[ed] often times the whole safety of the kingdome may easily be considered: all which they neverthelesse fairely overcame by reason of the continewal presence of the King whos onely person is oftentimes in stead of an army to contayne the unruly poeple from a thousand evill occasions which that wretched kingdome is for want therof daily carried into. The which when they so make head no lawes no penalties can restraine but that they do in the violence of that fury tread doune and trample under foote all both divine and humane things and the lawes themselves they do specially rage at and rend in peces as most repugnant to ther liberty and naturall fredome which in ther madnesse they effect.
Eudox: It is then a very unseasonable time to plead law when swords are in the hands of the vulgare or to thinck to retaine them with feare of punishments when they loke after liberty and shake of all goverment.
Iren: Then so it is with Ireland continually for the sword was never yet out of ther hand but when they are weary with warrs and brought doune to extreame wretchednesse; then they creepe a litle perhaps and sewe for grace till they have gotten new breath and recovered strength againe: so it is in vaine to speake of planting of lawes and plotting of pollicies till they be altogether subdued.
Eudox: Were they not so at the first conquering of them by Strangbowe in the time of King Henry the second? Was there not a thorowe way then made by the sword for the imposing of the lawes upon them? and were they not then executed with such mighty hand as you sayd was used by the Norman Conqueror? What odds is there then in this case? why should not the same lawes take as good effect in that poeple as they did here being in like sort prepared by the sword and brought under by extremity? and why should it not continew in as good force and vigor for the contayning of the poeple?
Iren: The case yet is not like; but ther apperes great odds betwene them; for by the conquest of Henry the second trew it is that the Irish were utterly vanquished and subdued so as no enemy was able to hold up his head against his powre: in which there weaknesse he brought in his lawes and settled them as now they ther remaine like as William the Conqueror did: so as in thus much they agre but in the rest that is the chiefest they varie: ffor to whom did King Henry the second impose thos lawes not to the Irish for the most part of them fled from his power into deserts and mountaynees leaving the wide country to the conqueror who in ther stead eftsones placed English men who possessed all the land and did quite shut out the Irish or the most part of them: and to those new inhabitants and Colonies he gave his lawes to wete the same lawes under which they were born and bred the which it was not difficulte to place amongst them being formerly well entred therunto; unto whom afterward ther repaired divers of the pore distressed poeple of the Irish for succor and reliefe: of whom such as they thought fit for labor and industriouslie disposed as the most part of theire baser sort are they received unto them as theire vassalls but scarcelie vouchsafed to impart unto them the benefite of those lawes under which them selves lived but everie one made his will a commandment and a lawe unto his owne vassall. Thus was not the lawe of England ever properlie applied unto the Irish nacon as by a purposte plott of goverment but as they could insynuate and steale them selves under the same by theire humble carriage and submission.
Eudox: How comes it then to passe that havinge ben once so lowe brought and thoroughlie subjected they afterwards lifted them selves so stronglie agayne and sithence doe stand stifflie against all rule and goverment?
Iren: They saie that they contynued in that lowlynesse untill the time that the division betwene the houses of Lancaster and York arose for the Crowne of England: At which tyme all the greate English lords and gentlemen which had great possessions in Ireland repaired over hither into England to succor their ffriends here and to strengthen theire partie for to obtene the Crowne: others to defend there landes and possessions against suche as hovered after the same uppon hope of the alteracon of the kingdome and successe of that side which they had favored and effected. Then the Irishe whom they before had banished into the mountaynes where they lived only uppon white meates as it is recorded: seeinge now there so dispeopled land weakened came downe into all the playnes adjoyninge and thence expellinge those fewe Englishe that remayned repossesste them agayne; since whych tyme they have remayned in them and growinge greater have brought under them many of the Englishe which were before theire lords. This is one of the occasions by which all those countries which lyinge nere unto any mountaynes or Irishe deserts which had bin planted with Englishe were shortlie displanted and lost. As namelie in Mounster all the landes adjoyning unto Slowlougher Arlo and the bogg of Allon. In Connaght all the Countries borderinge uppon the Culvers; Montroo and ORourkes countrie. In Leinster all the landes neighboring unto the mountaynes of Glanmulls unto Shellelagh unto the Briskbagh and Poulmont. In Ulster all the countries near unto Tirconnell Tyronne and Hertellagh and the Scottes.
Eudox: Surelie this was a great violence: but yett by your speche it semeth that onlie the Countrie and vallies near adjoyninge unto those mountaynes and desertes were thus recovered by the Irishe: but how comes it now that wee see almost all that Realme repossessed of them? Was there any more such evil occasons growinge by the troubles of England? Or did the Irishe out of thes places so by them gotten breake further and stretche them selves out thorough the whole land? But nowe for ought that I can understand there is no part but the bare English pale in which the Irishe have not the greatest footinge.
Iren: Bothe out of theis smale begynnynges by them gotten near to the mountaynes did they spreade them selves into the Inland Countrie; and also to theire further advantage there did other like unhappie accidentes happen out of England which gave harte and good opportunitye to them to regain theire old possessions. Ffor in the reigne of Kinge Edward the fourth things remained yet in the same state that they were after the late breakinge out of the Irishe which I spake of: And that noble Prince began to cast an eye unto Ireland and to mynde the reformacon of thinges there rune amisse: for he sent over his brother the worthie Duke of Clarence who having married the heire of Larie and by her havinge all the Erledom of Ulster and moche in Meathe and in Mounster verie carefullie went about in the redressinge of those late evills: and though he could not beate out the Irishe agayne by reason of his shorte contynuance yet he did shutt them upp within those narrowe corners and glennes under the mountayne foot in which they lurked and soe kept them from breaking any further by buildinge strang holdes uppon everie border and fortifyinge all passages: Amongest the which he built the castle of Clare in Thurmond: of which Countrie he had the inheritance and of Mortymers landes adjoining which is nowe by the Irishe called Killalowe. But the tymes of that good Kinge growinge troublesome did lett the thorough reformacon of all things. And thereunto soone after was added another fatall mischiefe which wrought a greater calamitie then all the former. For the said Duke of Clarence then Lord Lieftenant of Ireland was by practize of evill persons about the Kinge his brother called thence awaye and soone after by synister meanes was cleane made awaye. Presentlie after whose deathe all the North revoltinge did sett up Oneale for theire Capten beinge before that of smale power and regard: and there arose in that parte of Thomond one of the O-Bryens called Murrogh en ranagh that is Morrys of the ffarme or waste wylde places: who gatheringe unto him all the relickes of the discontented Irishe eftsones surprised the said Castle of Clare burnt and spoyled all the English there dwelling and in short space possessed all the country beyond the river of Shenan and near adjoyning. Whence shortlie breakinge forth like a sudden tempest he overran all Mounster and Connnaught breakinge downe all the holdes and fortresses of the Englishe defacinge and utterlie subvertinge all corporate Townes that were not stronglie walled: for those he had no meanes nor engynes to overthrowe; neither indede would he stay at all about them but speedilie ran forwarde counting his suddennes his most vantage that he might overtake the Englishe before they could fortefie or gather them selves together. So in short time he cleane wyped out many greate townes as first in Chegin then Killalowe before called Clarryfort; afterward Tharles Mourne Buttevant and many others viz.